CEO Blues

A blog type thing

Comments

Chris Tingom -

I'd be interested to hear your philosophy on billing by the hour.

Dan James -

Chris,
I guess I didn't elaborate too much on that one. Thanks for pointing it out.

We have a few reasons for not billing by the hour:

1) If you bill by the hour you need to keep track of work by the hour. We've learned that we can't be that fine grained. We're much better, and much more accurate, if we track our days. Not tracking our hours means, for us, that we spend more time working and less time thinking about tracking ourselves.

2) Generally, projects that require billing by the hour are not big enough for us to manage efficiently. We've found that the overhead of projects is the same regardless of the size of the project. You seem to need the same amount of back and forth, meetings, and involvement in a $5,000 project as you do a $50,000.

3) Days are a more flexible unit than hours. A day can be 6 hours or 12 hours depending on what we're up to. This gives us a little more room to meet client's needs, meet our needs, and is easy to account for.

4) We're billing less and less by the day and none by the hour. We're leaning a lot of our business into the "get into the action" category

5) Easier billing. A lot less math at invoice time.

6) Sets the tone. This is probably the most abstract yet most important. By only offering a per diem price we are signalling a certain level of service, quality, and budget. It's a tad on the elitist side but it seems to be working for us.

Dan James -

I just added the "Go on retainer" section at the end. I had forgotten to add it.

Marc Musial -

Great post, I wish you posted it a month ago though. It made me really think about what I have on the go now (4 freelance sites + plus day job), and how I should have approached these contracts (billing by day instead of by hour). Also saying "no", to certain contracts. But its kind of a double edged sword, you need the contracts to build your portfolio, and pay bills, etc. but by taking on more clients means more work, and a lesser quality of work.

Really good read though.
Thanks!

Jeff Dachis -

Dan,

Great post, and some real meaningful ideas. I especially agree with the points about not taking on work that you arent excited about, and being super picky about who you bring into the company.

I'd like to take exception to a few points and add some insight.

1) RFP's are a part of doing business in the big leagues. Most major companies spending north of $ 500,000, not to mention those spending $ 5,000,000 on a serious engagement requiring serious talent to do serious work, will require an RFP. They are useful to weed out the companies that dont have the resources to deliver, that dont have the stability to stay in business and service the engagement, and that dont have the technical capabilities to actually spec, scope, and apply the resources to the engagement. So, despite being tedious and unwieldy, consider RFP's from a company a badge of honor that only those big and strong enough to compete can complete. Separates the boys from the men so to speak. Although I agree 100% on not doing any work for free as part of the process...

2) However you slice it, billable time is the package of units that are being sold in a services company. The only way to sell more inventory (time) is to have more inventory to sell (people). Any services company of scale knows that the only way to ensure profitability is to be able to measure the amount of inventory being delivered to and paid for by clients. If you have too much inventory going unsold, you lose money. If you dont have enough inventory to sell, you miss out on opportunities and dont have resources to bid on and complete projects. A shop of 10 people is easy to see who is doing what and who is on the bench. A shop of 100 is trickier, and a shop of 1000 is difficult. Balancing this (utilization) is a tricky part of being in a services business and scaling it. I think you do your readers a disservice by encouraging them not to track time and ensure that all time is allocated to billable or non-billable project codes. If the goal is to have a simple easy lifestyle business, then perhaps it doesnt matter, but for anyone serious about building and growing a services business, tracking and allocating time is the ONLY way to grow your business... or better yet STAY in business...

3) Being a web services business doesnt suck. Its why some people get up everyday... Its not because they have other interests in real estate, or franchises and are in the fake internet business because they saw the next hot trend... Its because they want to be in the web services business. They want to build stuff, they want to help companies achieve their goals. All businesses are hard to manage, especially people based ones, but most people do this business because it sucks a lot less than anything else...

I like your other points about billing by the day, getting retainers, and exploring alternative compensation methods (although I have always preferred cash).

Its great to hear what other entrepreneurs are thinking.

Best,

Jeff

David -

I disagree with your assessment of RFPs and proposals. My firm, and lots of firms that I know, have had success responding to RFPs. I've even managed a few RFP processes for clients. They selected companies they had never worked with before and were not unfairly predisposed to, paid good hourly rates, and signed off on large fixed projects.

Could it be that the reason you have such a bad hit percentage on RFPs is that you're not good at writing proposals?

I can just picture a kid going up to bat, striking out every time, and then claiming:
1) the ball is predisposed against his bat
2) he was predisposed to fail because the pitcher was going to lob an easy one to the batter AFTER him
3) hitting the ball isn't as interesting as its cracked up to be.

Don't follow this path! Go to the RFP Database and only respond to the projects that you feel you have a better than average chance of winning. Be selective, write better proposals, and maybe you'll win won.

Dan James -

Jeff:
Thanks for your comments and insights.You bring a an important, and missing, position to this discussion. After reading your response I think my post might have been better titled: "Why growing a small to medium sized web service business is hard and what we did that we think helped". Not as catchy but more accurate.

RFP's north of 500,000 - of course. I think my comments makes it painfully obvious that we don't participate in projects of that size/scale. I think it's safe to say that at that level there are fewer players in the game than at the level we're operating at. Writing a proposal for a 1.3 million dollar project is worth it for the client and the provider. Writing a proposal for a 20,000 project is probably not worth it for either.

"I think you do your readers a disservice by encouraging them not to track time and ensure that all time is allocated to billable or non-billable project codes. If the goal is to have a simple easy lifestyle business, then perhaps it doesnt matter, but for anyone serious about building and growing a services business, tracking and allocating time is the ONLY way to grow your business... or better yet STAY in business..."

I have readers?! :) I agree and disagree. Yes, you need to be able to track time and be able to bill accurately if you are going to be a company that gets into dozens of employees and sell your services. This is a very proven way of doing business and it is, as I'm sure you know, very important and difficult to do well.

My thoughts are based on a shop of 14 people who really don't want to grow in people much more than that. I believe I prefaced my advice with "If you want to grow your business but don’t want to manage a billion web monkeys here are some things we’ve learned over the years that may help." I admit that my advice implicitly limits how far you can grow. Silverorange could never grow to be Razorfish's size. We would collapse under our own policies, shenanigans, and laziness.

Would it be fair to say that growing from a two person shop to a silverorange sized shop is a different beast altogether?

"Being a web services business doesnt suck. Its why some people get up everyday... Its not because they have other interests in real estate, or franchises and are in the fake internet business because they saw the next hot trend... Its because they want to be in the web services business. They want to build stuff, they want to help companies achieve their goals. All businesses are hard to manage, especially people based ones, but most people do this business because it sucks a lot less than anything else..."

Agreed. I was just being cheeky with my title. Obviously it can't suck too bad because I get up everyday and do it as well (and enjoy 99% of it). I think what sucks is what you allude to: Anything to do with people is a little more complex and intricate than with products. It's much more rewarding at a personal level but sometimes I look across the fence at the product companies and envy their green grass.

I didn't mention that we always do a mixture of cash and alternate compensation on a project. We never just do a project for stock. That's too risky. We see the stock like getting a lottery ticket along with the fees. We also always get 50% upfront.

Thanks for your comments Jeff. I really appreciate them. Where are you based out of?

Dan James -

David:
Fair enough. We could have just been really bad proposal writers. I'm pretty sure we weren't.

Our proposal writing stage was early on when we had little portfolio work to back up the proposals. That definitely played into our non-success. I'm sure if we were to write proposals now then we would have much better success. The thing is that we now don't have to write proposals. We have more work coming to us than we could possibly do. We get to pick and choose from a variety of great projects. We are in a very lucky position and are not ignorant about that. I like to think that some of the things I listed above got us to this position though.

Who knows - if the economy keeps going the way it is then maybe we'll need to revisit our take on competition . (Before Jeff points out that there IS competition I mean this only in the small to medium sized design shops that I know of and talk to. Which aren't that numerous).

David, for transparency purposes I'd like to point out that you were the developers of the RFP database site you linked to. I don't think it affects your bias too much but it's key to point out so readers understand where you're coming from. Nice work BTW. It looks good. If we did look for RFPs we'd look there.

David -

Hi Dan,

I'm more than glad to take credit for the RFP Database, but it is really a side project of our main business which is Confluent Forms. You could say we're a direct competitor to you and probably do similar projects. I'd say that we win about 20% of the RFPs we respond to; initially it wasn't that high a ratio, but once we had a portfolio of projects to demonstrate that illustrated to the client that we had built systems/sites JUST LIKE THEIR PROJECT it became much, much easier.

I guess what I'm saying is that nobody should cut off viable avenues for finding new business, but taking a cue from Jeff, you need to track your time and figure out what your ROI is for each activity. If you find yourself spending more time (and time = money) than it's worth on proposals that don't get you anywhere, change your approach.

Geoff Teehan -

Great post Dan.

We've never been crazy about the thought of going on retainer. It becomes difficult to "say no" to projects that aren't a good fit (for whatever reason). Have you guys run into that issue?

Dan James -

Geoff,
That's only happened to us a few times. We only go on retainer with clients that we've worked with before and gotten along with well. Generally if you have a good client and you get along well there aren't that many stupid projects that come through. In the years we've been doing retainers that's only happened a few times.

By having the long term relationship of a retainer we've also been able to tell a few clients "that's a stupid idea" and they either cancelled the project or changed the idea.

Alan Houser -

Dan, there's so many eye-opening things in this article! I'm in the process of stepping-back and taking my own pulse right now.

I'm re-designing my site in a very public way -- blogging and podcasting my way through it. The podcast has featured interviews with branding and strategy experts, and I can tell you it was the best decision I've made to just un-plug and slow-down.

I've recently lowered my rates to get more outsourced work, and this did bring companies out of the woodwork, but I can definitely see that a daily/weekly rate would work better. These development companies who I've given 'project rates' to really appreciated working under this solid estimate, and I can see why. They have to also quote a project to their client.

Being a solo freelancer, it's not as painful to grossly mis-quote something, as it would be if I had an admin + other designers. Obviously, if I want to grow, I'm going to work on that!

Thanks again for the incredible article!

Ian -

Late to the game, but this is a fantastic post. Currently sharing it with folks in H-wood.

dottiesparks -

I cannot use by Blue Mountain service which I am paying for because my computer will not accept the cookies. Why? I don't know. It always worked before and I am a computer expert but did try all the recommended remedies and still nothing works. I have Internet Explorer 7 and there are no quick fixes for this. I cannot find anyway to contact the company to get help so this is my only way to show my anger and get some help with this frustrating problem.

Project Management and the Web -

Great post and insights into a web service business. I've already bookmarked this page.

I recently created a post on the topic of RFPs and, after playing this game over the years, we too are now very skeptical about the RFP process in general. There are many variables involved with the RFP/Proposal process and, like anything, not all RFP's are bad. Nevertheless, we are learning to spot red flags in proposals. Also, knowing how many RFP's are being sent out is valuable information. And one other thing: if you ask the question, 'Have you sent this RFP to an agency that you are working with or have worked with before' - this can make the decision to create a proposal an easy one. :)

StormPilot

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